The Wealth Transfer Podcast

A Better Way to Exit Your Business: ESOPs, Tax Strategy & Legacy Planning | Luke Britt

Planning the future of your business isn’t just about selling at the right time — it’s about protecting your life’s work, aligning your advisors, reducing risk, and setting your family up for multi-generational success.
In this episode, Matt sits down with Luke Britt, CLU®, RICP®, Practice Director of Advanced Planning at Level Four Financial, where he serves ultra-high-net-worth families and business owners with integrated estate planning, business succession strategy, and transition planning. Luke advises on complex tax structures, ESOPs, legacy planning, and the art of preparing a business years before an exit becomes visible.
 
Together, Matt and Luke unpack:
💼 Business Exit Strategy
Why waiting is the #1 mistake owners make before an exit
How to de-risk a business to increase valuation
What buyers look for in clean data and organized financials
The four must-have advisors for any successful transition
🏛️ ESOPs & Advanced Options
When an ESOP is the right path for selling to employees
Why ESOPs preserve culture, retain talent, and build long-term stability
EBITDA thresholds and organizational requirements for ESOP viability
🏠 Integrated Estate & Legacy Planning
How integrated planning aligns the attorney, CPA, financial advisor & business consultant
Why “spoiling kids” is often a myth — and how values-based planning prevents it
What wealthy parents should transfer besides money
How to think in 100-year arcs when building your family mission
Luke also shares insights into:
Private credit, real estate mixes, and how UHNW families think about allocation
The mindset shift from “building a business” to “building a family enterprise”
How to structure trustees, governance, and long-range stewardship
Whether you’re five years from selling your business — or unsure if you ever want to — this episode will reshape how you think about wealth, purpose, and the transition ahead.
👤 Guest: Luke Britt, CLU®, RICP®
Practice Director – Advanced Planning & Business SolutionsLevel Four Financial | CRI Advisors📍 Dallas, TX🌐 www.levelfourgroup.com📧 lbritt@levelfourfinancial.com📞 972.284.5481
👋 Connect With Matt Templeton
Real Estate Planner | Wealth Transfer StrategistFounder, Templeton Real Estate GroupIf you need trusted introductions to attorneys, CPAs, financial advisors, 1031 experts, or estate professionals — reach out anytime.
📧 matt@templeton.realestate📞 972-677-3991
We guide families through life’s biggest real estate transitions.
🕒 SHOW NOTES + TIMESTAMPS
00:00 — IntroductionWhy business planning and legacy are inseparable. Luke’s role advising families and business owners. 
01:00 — What Luke DoesThe two sides of his practice:• Business advisory• Advanced integrated estate planningHow they work together to prepare a business years before an exit. 
02:00 — The Tax Nerd + Pastoral CounselorWhy technical expertise isn’t enough — and why legacy conversations matter. 
03:00 — Preparing the Family, Not Just the PlanWhy “spoiling kids” is a myth when families articulate values.How healthy families prepare heirs emotionally and relationally. 
05:30 — How Business Advisory WorksData gathering → financial modeling → de-risking → exit path selection.Why business financials are often the greatest barrier to valuation. 
08:00 — ESOPs Explained SimplyWhat they are, who they’re for, and why culture-driven owners choose them.Why ESOPs aren’t ideal if you want maximum cash at close. 
11:00 — Cashflow, Taxes & Seller Financing in ESOPsWhy delayed liquidity can actually be a tax advantage.Case study from New Mexico. 
12:00 — Who Qualifies for an ESOP?EBITDA thresholds, employee count, and cultural readiness. 
14:00 — What Is Integrated Estate Planning?Why the attorney, CPA, wealth advisor & insurance strategist must be aligned.The problem with “one advisor who claims to do everything.” 
15:30 — Real Family Horror StoriesWhen poor advisor coordination leads to litigation and bad outcomes. 
18:00 — Portfolio Composition of UHNW FamiliesPrivate equity, hard assets, real estate, private credit, and illiquidity tolerance. 
21:00 — Building a Family Investment OfficeWhy many entrepreneurs create in-house underwriting & investment review systems. 
23:00 — Avoiding “Noisy Assets”The shift from chasing returns to preserving wealth post-exit.Kevin O’Leary’s principle: “You’ve already won the game — don’t lose it.” 
25:00 — First Steps in Exit PlanningThe necessity of data cleanup & quality financials.Why reviewed financials or QofE reports matter. 
27:00 — Don’t WaitWhy 95% of business owners regret their exit — and how to be in the 5% who don’t. 
28:00 — Who Needs to Be on the Advisory TeamExit planner, wealth advisor, CPA, estate attorney, business attorney, and more.The coordinating role that makes or breaks success. 
30:00 — Luke’s Next Big IdeaWhy trying to “avoid spoiling the kids” misses the point.100-year family planning and generational mission.
33:00 — Building the Family EnterpriseShifting from business CEO → family CEO.Structuring trustees, governance, and decision-making.
35:00 — Where to Find LukeWebsite, email, LinkedIn, and how he supports advisors & business owners.

How to Avoid Trust Disasters: Corporate Trustees, Family Conflict, & Smarter Estate Planning ft. Sarah Lashua

Today on The Wealth Transfer Podcast, Matt Templeton sits down with trust and estate administrator Sarah Lashua (American National Bank & Trust) to unpack one of the most overlooked — and most emotionally charged — areas of wealth transfer: what really happens after you’re gone.
If you’ve ever wondered how to keep your kids from fighting, how to structure your estate so it's actually easy to administer, or why corporate trustees exist (and why they often save families from chaos), this episode is full of essential insights.
Sarah brings over seven years of trust administration experience, a tax background, and a legal perspective to show us the pitfalls she sees every day — pot trusts gone wrong, illiquid real estate causing gridlock, beneficiary disputes, rigid documents, unclear responsibilities, and the shocking emotional realities that surface after a parent or grandparent passes away.
She also dives into practical tools that most families never get told about:• When a corporate trustee becomes a MUST, not a luxury• How to design trusts that don’t destroy family relationships• Why liquidity matters more than most people realize• Charitable remainder trusts (CRTs) as tax-saving, legacy-building vehicles• Using donor-advised funds wisely• How inherited IRAs create massive, unexpected tax burdens• And the emotional side of estate cleanouts — “your stuff is not your legacy”
This episode blends expert education with real human stories, giving families a clearer path to building, protecting, and transferring their wealth without unnecessary strain, conflict, or cost.
📞 Connect with Today’s Guest — Sarah Lashua
Website/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahlashua/Phone: 940-310-6922Email: sarah.lashua@amnat.com
Bio:Sarah has been a trust and estate administrator for more than seven years. Prior to working in banking, she worked in public accounting with a focus on tax compliance. She enjoys combining her tax and legal background to help clients navigate the complexities of trust and estate administration. When she isn’t working, Sarah is supervised by her two golden retrievers.
🏠 About Your Host — Matt Templeton
Matt Templeton is a Real Estate Planner, long-time real estate expert, and the founder of Templeton Real Estate Group, serving clients across DFW, TX and Albuquerque, NM. Matt helps families strategically build, preserve, and transfer wealth through smarter real estate decisions — especially when navigating inheritance, senior transitions, trust complications, and estate planning.
Matt collaborates with attorneys, CPAs, trust officers, and financial advisors to give clients the full team they need to protect and steward their assets across generations.
👉 If you need referrals, guidance, or help navigating your own wealth-transfer or real-estate planning situation, reach out anytime.
Contact Matt:📧 matt@templeton.realestate📞 972-677-3991
📘 Show Notes & Key Topics
00:00 — Introduction to Sarah & the Role of Corporate Trustees
What a trust officer actually does, and why naming family members as trustees often creates emotional, legal, and financial problems.
02:00 — The Hidden Liability of Being a Trustee
How naming your child, sibling, or spouse as trustee changes family dynamics — and exposes them to personal legal risk.
03:00 — What Corporate Trustees Do Daily
Distribution requests, monthly allowances, document reviews, ongoing communication, and helping families navigate needs.
05:00 — Privacy, Money, & Awkward Conversations
Why trustees often must examine beneficiaries’ outside income and assets — and why this can be uncomfortable.
06:00 — The #1 Trust Structure to Avoid: Pot Trusts
Why pot trusts often explode with sibling rivalry, conflict, and impossible administration requirements.
08:00 — Flexibility in Documents: Why It Matters
How rigid estate documents trap trustees, beneficiaries, and families — and when courts must step in.
10:00 — What Makes a Trust Too Small or Too Large for Corporate Trustees
Minimums, ideal sizes, and when combining trusts is the best solution.
11:00 — Red Flags When Reviewing Trusts or Estates
Liquidity issues, toxic assets, land, mineral interests, and difficult beneficiaries. What makes a trust too complicated to accept.
13:00 — Fiduciary Duty: What Most People Don’t Understand
Why self-dealing, bad record-keeping, and “favoritism” create lawsuits and family division.
15:00 — How Sibling Rivalry Ruins Inheritances
Real-world dynamics: locked gates, unmaintained property, differing intentions for land, and multi-heir gridlock.
16:00 — Structuring Real Estate Inside an Estate or Trust
Why real estate is the #1 source of inheritance conflict and how to plan better on the front end.
21:00 — Case Study: Big Land + Many Beneficiaries
Why large families with large assets often face inevitable conflict — and how to build escape routes into your plan.
23:00 — Executors, Accusations, & Mismanaged Estates
How executors become the target and why unclear documents accelerate conflict.
24:00 — Estate Planning Reality: People Behave Differently When You’re Gone
Why your heirs won’t act the same way once the “glue” of the family is gone.
27:00 — Estate Cleanouts: The Emotional & Comical Realities
Foreign coins, old collections, coffee mugs, and the truth: your legacy is not your stuff.
31:00 — What Families Should Do Now
Decluttering, gifting heirlooms early, sharing stories, and reducing future burdens for loved ones.
35:00 — Why EVERY Adult Needs a Will (Not Just Seniors)
The dangers of holographic wills and multi-state property.A Florida example where the wrong person inherited due to an invalid will.
39:00 — Revocable Trust Mistakes Everyone Makes
Creating a trust but failing to retitle assets — why probate still gets triggered.
41:00 — Charitable Planning: Underused but Powerful
Charitable remainder trusts, donor-advised funds, and legacy-building strategies.
47:00 — The Tax Strategy Most Families Haven’t Heard Of
Using a CRT to stretch inherited IRAs beyond 10 years and dramatically reduce taxes.

How the Wealthy Actually Plan: Gifting, HSAs, 529s & Estate Structure | Jonathan Meaney

Today on The Wealth Transfer Podcast, Matt Templeton sits down with Jonathan Meaney — Senior Vice President and Wealth Manager at Carter Financial, CFP®, Accredited Investment Fiduciary, and 25-year advisor to high-net-worth families.
This episode cuts through the noise around “financial planning” and breaks down what real planning looks like: comprehensive strategy, long-term decision-making, and aligning assets with actual life goals. Jonathan shares the mistakes he sees wealthy families make over and over, the hidden opportunities most people overlook, and the surprisingly simple tax-advantaged tools that can move millions out of a taxable estate over time.
You’ll hear Jonathan’s take on:
Why most “financial planners” aren’t actually doing planning
How 529s can function as one of the most powerful estate-transfer vehicles (and why wealthy families underutilize them)
The right and wrong way to title property and accounts in a trust
Annual gifting strategies most families ignore
Social Security optimization (and how bad timing drains your legacy)
HSAs as a secret tax-free wealth-building machine
Why widows/widowers often feel financially insecure — even when they’re objectively more than fine
How to interview a financial planner (and the red flags to watch for)
Jonathan also gets real about the emotional side of planning — helping people dream again, helping grieving spouses untangle decades of accounts, and helping families pass wealth with intention instead of confusion.
If you want to understand how wealthy families actually plan — not the surface-level investing chatter — this episode is packed with practical insights, real stories, and strategies you can apply today.
🔗 Connect with Jonathan Meaney
Carter Financial Management🌐 Website: www.carterwealth.com📞 Phone: (214) 363-4200
⏱️ Timestamps & Show Notes
00:00 — Intro to guest: Jonathan Meaney, CFP®Jonathan’s background, market crash beginnings in 2001, and why true financial planning is more than investments.
03:00 — What a financial planner actually doesPortfolio alignment, goal-setting, estate strategy, risk management, and why many “planners” don’t actually plan.
07:00 — Planning is ongoing, not a one-time eventWhy updating the plan matters more than the initial plan.
08:00 — Integrating all assets (including real estate)Why planners must look at everything, not just the stock market.
09:30 — Biggest mistakes wealthy families make
Naming minors as beneficiaries
Not retitling assets into a trust
Social Security timing mistakes
Skipping annual gifting
12:00 — Why 529 plans are one of the greatest wealth-transfer toolsAccelerated gifting, tax advantages, owner control, and multi-generational planning.
18:00 — Tax-free wealth building: HSAs done rightHow business owners can extract money tax-free and build a medical retirement fund.
20:00 — Helping clients deal with fear and financial anxietyWhy widowed clients often feel insecure and how planning provides clarity.
24:00 — Dreaming again: helping clients enjoy their moneyHow planners guide clients to meaningful use of wealth.
26:00 — Stress-testing a financial planLongevity assumptions, downturn scenarios, disability, and conservative modeling.
27:00 — Why you shouldn’t wait to involve a professionalReal-world examples of estate chaos when planning is delayed.
30:00 — How to choose the right advisorCFP designation, red flags, and what to look up on BrokerCheck.
32:00 — The #1 thing Jonathan wishes clients would doAnnual gifting and intentional giving during your lifetime.
34:00 — How to connect with Jonathan

The Hidden Stories Behind Estate Sales, Legacy, and Letting Go | Tonya Adams & Matt Templeton

Every heirloom tells a story — but when it’s time to settle an estate, those stories can be lost unless someone knows how to uncover them.
In this episode of The Wealth Transfer Podcast, Matt Templeton sits down with Tonya Adam, founder of When Pigs Fly Estate Sales & Auctions, to talk about the emotional, logistical, and even spiritual side of estate transitions.
With over 17 years of experience managing fine estates, luxury collections, and full home liquidations across Texas and beyond, Tonya has seen it all — from diamond rings hidden in shoes to love letters wrapped in ribbons from World War II. But what makes her work so unique is her compassion for families navigating loss and legacy at the same time.
Together, they discuss:
Why estate sales are an overlooked part of the wealth-transfer process
How Tonya helps families preserve stories and sentimental value, not just assets
Lessons learned from decades of helping people “let go” of what matters most
The rise of content creators reshaping the antiques and collectibles market
How families can prepare in advance to make estate transitions easier and fairer
If you or someone you love will someday inherit, downsize, or transfer wealth, this episode is full of wisdom, heart, and a reminder that stuff is just stuff — but stories are priceless.
📅 The full episode is available now. Subscribe to The Wealth Transfer Podcast for more real-world conversations about how to build, protect, and pass on generational wealth.
🗒️ Show Notes
Guest: Tonya AdamBusiness: When Pigs Fly Estate Sales & Auctions📞 940-566-1000📧 Tonya@whenpigsflyshop.com | info@wpfsales.com
About Tonya:Estate sale & auction expert | Fine estates, ranches, art, jewelry, autos, valuable collections & firearms | Skilled in complex locations, out-of-state sales & full estate relocations | Honoring the past, curating for the future.
🕰️ Key Timestamps & Takeaways
00:00 – How Tonya built her business after leaving corporate life03:00 – From antique stores to luxury estate sales06:00 – The human side of helping families through loss08:00 – Handling million-dollar collections and avoiding family disputes12:00 – Hidden treasures: from love letters to diamonds in shoes16:00 – The biggest life lesson: “Stuff is just stuff”18:00 – What truly drives today’s estate-sale markets (hint: TikTok and designers!)23:00 – Why planning ahead matters more than ever27:00 – How to host “Friends and Family” pre-sales to reduce conflict33:00 – The story of Beverly Ray’s magnificent Dallas estate38:00 – Turning estate sales into storytelling experiences41:00 – Building trust and running a compassionate team44:00 – Tonya’s final advice: be kind, plan ahead, and preserve the stories
🧭 Connect with The Wealth Transfer Podcast
📺 Subscribe on YouTube: @WealthTransferPodcast🎧 Listen on Spotify / Apple Podcasts💡 Do You or a Loved One Want to Make an Estate Plan? Let Us Help!
Call Us or Send a Text: (972) 677-3991

International Heirs, Divorce, & Death: Real-World Financial Planning | Adam Keller, CFP®

What happens when your heirs live abroad? Or when a death or divorce turns your financial world upside down?
In this episode, Matt Templeton sits down with Adam Keller, a Certified Financial Planner™ and founding partner of Three Oaks Advisory Group, to explore how strategic financial planning can transform wealth building, retirement preparation, and generational transfer. Adam brings two decades of experience serving clients across borders, asset classes, and life transitions—especially women navigating divorce or widowhood, and families with international estates.
From 1031 exchanges and estate tax exemptions, to Roth conversions, trust strategy, and legacy planning, this episode covers the real questions families are asking as they prepare for the future.
📄 Show Notes
Guest: Adam Keller, CFP®, Founding Partner at Three Oaks Advisory GroupHost: Matt Templeton | Real Estate Planner, Templeton Real Estate Group
🧭 Episode Highlights & Timestamps:
[00:01:00] Adam’s background in international business, and how he became a financial planner
[00:03:00] “Expert in nothing”: What financial planners really do and how they collaborate with CPAs, attorneys, and real estate professionals
[00:05:00] Who Adam serves best: complex earners (stock grants, rentals) and retirees with $2M–$15M net worth
[00:07:00] Generation-skipping trusts, gifting, and what to do when heirs haven’t been born yet
[00:10:00] Asset mix strategy: how to structure investments based on risk tolerance and liquidity needs
[00:12:00] Working across borders: What you must know if your heirs live in another country or you own assets overseas
[00:14:00] Examples from France, the UK, and how multi-country coordination helps avoid double taxation
[00:16:00] U.S. estate tax exemption vs. non-resident alien threshold ($13M+ vs. $60K!)
[00:18:00] Serving women in transition: divorce, death of a spouse, and navigating unfamiliar financial decisions
[00:20:00] Smart decisions for life insurance payouts, sub-3% mortgages, and refinancing after divorce
[00:21:00] Step-up in basis and the window of opportunity after death to reposition assets tax-free
[00:23:00] How to choose a financial advisor: the single question you must ask before hiring one
[00:26:00] Portfolio expectations: volatility, transparency, and the myth of “no-risk, high-return”
[00:27:00] Collaboration wins: how great advisors coordinate with CPAs, estate attorneys, and HR teams
[00:29:00] Legacy planning beyond money: virtues, values, and preventing future entitlement
💡 Key Takeaways:
If your heirs live internationally, document and communicate everything clearly—especially titles, accounts, and advisors.
Generation-skipping trusts, Roth conversions, and gifting strategies should align with your estate vision and tax picture.
Serving women in transition requires empathy, clarity, and sometimes introducing female advisors for comfort and trust.
Use tools like donor-advised funds, qualified charitable distributions, and tax-advantaged stock donations to maximize legacy giving.
Wealth transfer isn't just about money—it's about passing down values, identity, and purpose.
📞 Connect with Adam Keller & Three Oaks Advisory Group:📧 Email: akeller@threeoaksag.com🌐 Website: www.threeoaksag.com🔗 LinkedIn: Adam Keller, CFP®
📬 Connect with Matt Templeton:📧 Email: matt@templeton.realestate📱 DM us for referrals to vetted financial planners, estate attorneys, or real estate experts in your area

Elder Abuse, Inheritance Battles, and Estate Wars: A Litigator’s View | David Johnson

What happens when siblings feud over millions… or 120,000 acres of ranch land… or who controls the family business?
In this episode, host Matt Templeton sits down with David Johnson, fiduciary litigator and author of FiduciaryLitigator.com. As a partner at Winstead PC, David handles some of Texas’ most complex disputes over trusts, estates, family businesses, and elder exploitation.
From heartbreaking elder abuse cases to strategies that can prevent families from blowing up in court, David reveals the real-world legal battles—and how to avoid them. Whether you’re a trustee, estate planner, or part of a family with significant assets, this episode is your front-row seat to the high stakes of wealth transfer litigation.
 Show Notes
Guest: David Johnson | Board Certified, Civil Appellate Law,Civil Trial Law, and Personal Injury Trial LawTexas Board of Legal Specialization // Managing Shareholder, Fort Worth Office Winstead PC
Host: Matt Templeton | Real Estate Planner // Templeton Real Estate Group
 Episode Highlights & Timestamps:
[00:01:00] David’s legal roots: from a family of judges and lawyers to finding his path in fiduciary litigation
[00:02:00] “Family law with a dead body”: why estate litigation is so often a battleground
[00:04:00] The case of the 120,000-acre West Texas ranch—and a 76-year-old daughter who’d never received a penny
[00:06:00] The silent danger: eldest children given absolute control—and why secrecy breeds lawsuits
[00:07:00] The $84 trillion wealth transfer and how to prevent it from igniting family wars
[00:08:00] David’s top advice for avoiding disputes: communicate, communicate, communicate
[00:10:00] Why video recordings and medical capacity evaluations can be game-changers in preventing will contests
[00:11:30] “Bad boy clauses” in trusts—and why trustees hate being the family police
[00:13:00] No-contest clauses and arbitration: legal tools that keep family disputes private
[00:16:00] Corporate trustees vs. family members: the critical choice that can decide peace or war
[00:19:00] Elder abuse realities: how caretakers, neighbors, and even professionals steal from the vulnerable
[00:22:00] The problem with enforcement—and why reporting elder abuse often leads nowhere
[00:25:00] Texas law developments on elder financial abuse and fiduciary reporting requirements
[00:26:00] How long can a trust last? The Rule Against Perpetuities and the shift to dynasty trusts
[00:30:00] Should every beneficiary have their own trust? The pros and cons of splitting up assets
[00:33:00] When to use trusts—and what tax advantages they really provide
[00:36:00] How to choose the right estate planning attorney—and the warning signs to watch for
[00:41:00] David’s final advice: Find lawyers who think first, act second, and don’t create conflicts for profit
 Key Takeaways:
Communication prevents lawsuits. Families should discuss estate plans openly to reduce suspicion and resentment.
Elder abuse is rampant. Family members, caregivers, and even professionals can exploit vulnerable individuals.
Video recordings and medical exams can help defend wills and trusts from future challenges.
Corporate fiduciaries can be a wise choice to avoid family fights—but they’re not for everyone.
Trusts can last 300 years in Texas now, but careful planning is needed to avoid unintended consequences.
No-contest and arbitration clauses help keep private family matters out of the public courtroom.
 Connect with David Johnson:
Blog: www.fiduciarylitigator.comLaw Firm: www.winstead.comEmail: dfjohnson@winstead.comPhone: (817) 420-8223

$300K Mistakes & Step-Up Secrets: What CPAs Know About Wealth Transfer | Nancy Phillips, CPA

How do you protect your wealth—and your family—from unnecessary taxes, infighting, or outright disaster?
In this episode, host Matt Templeton sits down with veteran CPA Nancy K. Phillips, who brings more than 35 years of experience in estate tax, trusts, and inheritance planning. Nancy has helped families untangle multi-generational estates, testified in IRS disputes, and trained other CPA firms in how to handle the most complicated trust and estate issues.
From heartbreaking family feuds to brilliant planning strategies, Nancy shares the real-world stories and critical tax insights that every family and advisor should hear. If you want to avoid costly estate mistakes and learn how to build a smarter transfer plan, this episode is for you.
📄 Show Notes:
Guest: Nancy K. Phillips, CPAHost: Matt TempletonEpisode Title: $300K Mistakes & Step-Up Secrets: What CPAs Know About Wealth TransferBio: Nancy Phillips has spent over 35 years in tax, accounting, and estate services. She started her practice in 1985 and has trained other CPA firms on trust and estate tax work. A recognized expert witness, she advises families, trustees, attorneys, and wealth planners across Texas.
📌 Episode Highlights & Timestamps:
[00:01:00] Nancy’s background: from Big 8 accounting to leading complex estate tax work
[00:02:00] Shocking estate mistakes: handwritten wills, no wills, and two wills signed on the same day
[00:04:30] What is a Family Settlement Agreement—and how it overrides your will
[00:06:30] When siblings fight over heirlooms and figurines: how emotion ruins estates
[00:10:00] “I can’t get my sister out of Mom’s house”: eviction battles in inheritance
[00:11:00] Nancy’s family strategy: drawing addresses from a hat to avoid fractional real estate chaos
[00:14:00] How to fairly divide household items without family drama
[00:16:00] The step-up in basis rule explained—why dying with real estate is often smarter than gifting it
[00:17:00] Real-life horror story: a $200K tax bill from selling property one month too early
[00:21:00] Using 1031 exchanges, DSTs, and REITs for smart real estate transfer (featuring Nancy’s personal experience)
[00:26:00] Estate tax thresholds, gift tax exemptions, and advanced gifting through FLPs
[00:29:00] How to gift minerals, stocks, or real estate smartly—and avoid carryover basis traps
[00:32:00] Why you shouldn’t dump 10 properties in one year: tax bracket strategies for widows
[00:34:00] The hidden cost of having 60+ accounts: how to simplify your finances before you die
[00:37:00] The trap of illiquid partnerships—and what to do if you inherit them
[00:38:00] Should you tell your kids what you have? When and how to include them in financial conversations
[00:41:00] Training the next generation: why Nancy took her son to closings starting at age 13
[00:43:00] Who Nancy helps: estate attorneys, trustees, family offices, and clients with complex assets
💡 Key Takeaways:
Dying with real estate often beats gifting—it allows heirs to reset the tax basis and avoid depreciation recapture.
Handwritten or DIY wills cause chaos and court battles; hire a professional to draft it right.
Family Settlement Agreements can override a will—usually after bitter infighting.
Gifting early can erode future tax advantages; beware of carryover basis when transferring assets pre-death.
Consolidate accounts and track assets clearly to avoid confusion, lost wealth, and excessive fees.
Talk to your heirs before death—especially if they’ll be in charge. Waiting until after you pass often causes tension or lawsuits.
📞 Connect with Nancy Phillips:📧 Email: NancyKPhillipsCPA@DallasTXCPA.com📞 Phone: (214) 361-2444🌐 Website: www.nkphillipscpa.com
📬 Contact Matt for Estate-Smart Real Estate Planning:📧 Email: matt@templeton.realestate📱 DM us for help with wealth transfer, 1031 exchanges, property inheritance, or time-of-death valuations

Inside the IRS: What Triggers Audits & How to Defend Your Estate Plan | Joel Crouch

What really happens when the IRS comes knocking on an estate? In this episode of The Wealth Transfer Podcast, Matt Templeton sits down with one of the country’s most respected tax attorneys, Joel Crouch, to unpack the red flags, missteps, and missing documents that trigger audits—and the proven strategies families and advisors can use to avoid them.
Joel has defended estates against IRS scrutiny for 36 years. He’s a partner at Meadows Collier in Dallas, has tried cases across the U.S., and was recently named “Tax Law Lawyer of the Year” by Best Lawyers in America. Whether you're navigating estate planning, filing gift tax returns, or trying to avoid family conflict and massive tax bills, this conversation delivers invaluable knowledge.
📄 Show Notes
Guest: Joel Crouch, Tax Attorney & Partner at Meadows CollierHost: Matt Templeton, Real Estate Planner | Templeton Real Estate GroupEpisode Title: Inside the IRS: What Triggers Audits & How to Defend Your Estate Plan
🧭 Episode Highlights & Timestamps:
[00:01:00] Joel’s 36-year journey representing families in high-stakes IRS disputes
[00:03:00] The top three tax categories Joel defends: estate & gift, income tax, and employment tax
[00:05:00] The #1 issue in estate and gift tax audits: valuations—and why cheap appraisals are a red flag
[00:08:00] Discount strategies (lack of marketability, minority interest) and how the IRS reviews them
[00:10:00] Why documenting non-tax reasons for your entity setup is critical to defend your plan
[00:14:00] A real case where poor follow-through on gifts created huge IRS exposure after death
[00:16:00] How the IRS resolves estate cases (Examiner → Appeals → Counsel) and why most settle
[00:18:00] Gift tax returns and why you should file—even if you’re under the lifetime exemption
[00:21:00] What triggers gift tax audits—and how to protect your family 10–20 years in advance
[00:25:00] Amending returns, filing late gift returns, and dealing with valuations after the fact
[00:28:00] Estate planning is a living process: the mistake of filing documents but never executing them
[00:30:00] Joel’s checklist for CPAs, attorneys, and financial advisors to safeguard client estate plans
[00:34:00] When to bring in a tax attorney: before filing Form 706, during planning, or when an audit begins
💡 Key Takeaways:
The IRS scrutinizes valuation discounts—don’t skimp on professional appraisals.
Your estate planning documents aren’t enough: you must follow through with transfers, funding, and documentation.
Filing gift tax returns (even when under the exemption) helps start the 3-year statute of limitations.
Bad paperwork and cheap advisors create “low-hanging fruit” for the IRS. Sophistication protects your plan.
Engage your team of advisors (CPAs, attorneys, planners) annually to revisit documents and trigger events.
If the IRS finds issues, your best defense is clean, documented intent and structure—prepared before the audit.
📞 Connect with Joel Crouch & Meadows Collier:🌐 Website: https://www.meadowscollier.com📞 Phone: (214) 744-3700📧 Inquiries: Reach out to Joel or his team for estate and tax representation or questions
📬 Connect with Matt or Get Introduced to a Real Estate Planner:📧 Email: matt@templeton.realestate📱 DM us anytime for referrals to trusted attorneys, planners, and tax professionals in your market